Hahaha.. this is so funny..
To you guys that do not know the story..
It started when I came across Nuar’s interesting piece of article on his blog.. he asked for an explanation.. eventhough im not an anthropologist or an expert.. Because of the fascination of answering that and the interesting-ness of the topic I dared to give him one.. But I never expected it to turn out to be a controversy.. hahaha SO funny.. Never knew that other people would care about my opinion.. but anyways… This was his respond to my post regarding “t-shirt-clothes”….
First lets review what he posted on his blog:
Titled: My reply
I would like to respond to “danielz” on his post of analyzing my previous blog post concerning having identical outfits. Firstly, you highlighted that our primary/secondary socialization is to be blamed. Do you personally think that everyone is brought up the same way? Primary socialization molds out to what we are now and personally speaking, I don’t think it has anything to do with wearing the same t-shirt as anyone else. Secondly, you’re trying to say that mixing of cultures is bad. I’ll disagree on that, perhaps mixing other cultures with one’s would broaden up your knowledge. It’s your own mind that’s saying “I’m embarrassed to be seen wearing the same shirt as him/her”. Thirdly, mass media manipulating the society? What’s this about? A million copies?
My Reply to you…
Yes you are right. We are not brought up by our parents or guardians in the same way. However u should know that we are brought up in the guidelines on the same set of norms which includes; our society’s customs, thinking and our CULTURE. The aspects of our culture within our own understandings are not only influenced by primary socialisation on its own rather than by both primary and secondary socialisation.
The culture that is being taught differs from one generation to one another.
What used to be right in our norm/culture is now wrong…
What used to be appropriate are now inappropriate…and vice versa…
We used to live in a society where “having 2 people wearing the same clothes in the same building are used to be perceived a normal” but because of the mixing of cultures (e.g. western culture that values fashion), that we mostly learnt through secondary socialisation; mass media or any other agents for that matters, it changed.
We usually accept or at least tolerate other culture’s way of thinking from education, mass media etc and subconsciously we relate their culture with ours and infuse both together (secondary). And of course what we learn is subjected to the individual interpretation whether to accept the outside culture as part of his/her own culture.
So if say for example that the parents had accepted the culture of “not having 2 people wearing the same clothes on the same building”, it will automatically become a part of their-interpretation-of –their-own culture and consequently they will teach it to their sons or daughthers (could be our generation or after ours). Even though it will not be in the formal sense, but it still counts as the children learning the norms/culture (including about the culture of not having/frowning upon 2 people wearing the same clothes in a building ) as a part of their primary socialisation.
However it should be acknowledged that the socialisation period of our parents may not be the same as others, in fact it may be more traditional than what I had anticipated. In that case, what their children learn in their primary socialisation will automatically coincide with what they learnt through agents of secondary socialisation. Their traditional way of thinking will usually be in agreement with their current environment or what they are exposed to (e.g from mass media).
Of course this is not absolute, because there are cases where some children do not accept the new mainstream cultures by ignoring the new culture and adapting to what they learnt on their primary socialisation (e.g ignoring or not caring if they were wearing the same shirt of not with other people). It is all up to the individual judgement.
FYI…. I personally think mixing of culture and infusing it with our mainstream culture are for the best (revolution of culture). I never said that it was bad nor did I write such things on my posts or yours. And yes I agree with you on mixing of other culture would broaden up our knowledge and not only that, IN MY OPINION it would also encourage and promote tolerancy which should unite the world nations together as one.
Mass media is one of the agents of secondary socialisation. Respectively, when they work together, (pri and sec) we internalised on what is appropriate and inappropriate to our understandings and respectively to the way we behave. It usually depends on our interpretation.
P/s : no offense to you.. and with all respect.. please read any post thoroughly before you respond to their finding or explanations.
*This explanation is not absolute, and I am not claiming it to be, but it should help us to explain the issue a little if not wholly. And this can prove that primary and secondary socialisation has a something to do with why now we live in the society where “no two should be wearing the same clothes in the same building”. You can either choose to accept it or not..
Next, I shall explain on how mass media can affect/manipulate our way of thinking on the micro scale.Say for example, when you watch movies or tv series on the television. Most of the TV materials portray a very different culture from ours. Sometimes we came to terms or understand the portrayal of the “culture from tv” and even practice it outside the tv world when we interact with our society. At first it may seems weird, strange or out of the ordinary but overtime subconsciously we begin to accept the “different culture” as normal and consequently it will become a part of the society.
*manipulate is not a bad thing in my dictionary for this post, I don’t know bout yours”
Lastly, regarding my tips, I did not say that different colours of the same designs would make it undistinguishable, but it does help from other people knowing instantly that you have identical piece of clothing as the person near you. I don’t know about you but most of the people that I know are not that extreme fashion observant up to a point they notice your clothing designs from every angle, nook and cranny. Oh yes, I agree with you, the clothes that they sell overseas do have copies of them, but it does eliminate the chances of bumping with other person wearing the same piece in your own country right? On a scale to 10, I’d say the chances of that is only 0.2. Besides, there’s a reason why on my post I put on the word “YOU CAN TRY”.. when the word try appears on the sentences it is not 100% guaranteed that it will work. It is up to the individual whether to listen or follow it or not. Those are just merely my opinions.
To The CSS BOX people…
ANON:
Yes we had time to study fashion in sociology pasal kmi habis syllabus awal..
Yes I don’t hear parents saying “eh lai, jangan pakai baju sama macam orang atu, bari malu tu”.. but I do hear parents saying “Eh lai, bhapa ko membali/memutung fashion cematu, banyak jua sudah org ada/buat cematu” hehee
Yes I know what subjective mean thank you very much. To what extend do you think my writing is subjective.. I don’t see how my personal feelings and judgment could be put into that writing. It is too general to be subjective… I don’t see any subjective-ness… Besides.. Who says that sociology can’t be subjective? Durkheim? Subjective and Objective both exist in sociology.. NDA JA? Each sociologist can choose whether to adopt either social action or Interactionist method jua.. kan kan?
RAL: If he/she think it’s crap than it is up to her/him.. I acknowledge but not accept that and thank him/her for him/her opinion. J
FAADZIL005: I am observant.. but not to that extreme..
OTHERS: If it’s ballooney then don’t try it.. nobody asked you to…
To you guys that do not know the story..
It started when I came across Nuar’s interesting piece of article on his blog.. he asked for an explanation.. eventhough im not an anthropologist or an expert.. Because of the fascination of answering that and the interesting-ness of the topic I dared to give him one.. But I never expected it to turn out to be a controversy.. hahaha SO funny.. Never knew that other people would care about my opinion.. but anyways… This was his respond to my post regarding “t-shirt-clothes”….
First lets review what he posted on his blog:
Titled: My reply
I would like to respond to “danielz” on his post of analyzing my previous blog post concerning having identical outfits. Firstly, you highlighted that our primary/secondary socialization is to be blamed. Do you personally think that everyone is brought up the same way? Primary socialization molds out to what we are now and personally speaking, I don’t think it has anything to do with wearing the same t-shirt as anyone else. Secondly, you’re trying to say that mixing of cultures is bad. I’ll disagree on that, perhaps mixing other cultures with one’s would broaden up your knowledge. It’s your own mind that’s saying “I’m embarrassed to be seen wearing the same shirt as him/her”. Thirdly, mass media manipulating the society? What’s this about? A million copies?
My Reply to you…
Yes you are right. We are not brought up by our parents or guardians in the same way. However u should know that we are brought up in the guidelines on the same set of norms which includes; our society’s customs, thinking and our CULTURE. The aspects of our culture within our own understandings are not only influenced by primary socialisation on its own rather than by both primary and secondary socialisation.
The culture that is being taught differs from one generation to one another.
What used to be right in our norm/culture is now wrong…
What used to be appropriate are now inappropriate…and vice versa…
We used to live in a society where “having 2 people wearing the same clothes in the same building are used to be perceived a normal” but because of the mixing of cultures (e.g. western culture that values fashion), that we mostly learnt through secondary socialisation; mass media or any other agents for that matters, it changed.
We usually accept or at least tolerate other culture’s way of thinking from education, mass media etc and subconsciously we relate their culture with ours and infuse both together (secondary). And of course what we learn is subjected to the individual interpretation whether to accept the outside culture as part of his/her own culture.
So if say for example that the parents had accepted the culture of “not having 2 people wearing the same clothes on the same building”, it will automatically become a part of their-interpretation-of –their-own culture and consequently they will teach it to their sons or daughthers (could be our generation or after ours). Even though it will not be in the formal sense, but it still counts as the children learning the norms/culture (including about the culture of not having/frowning upon 2 people wearing the same clothes in a building ) as a part of their primary socialisation.
However it should be acknowledged that the socialisation period of our parents may not be the same as others, in fact it may be more traditional than what I had anticipated. In that case, what their children learn in their primary socialisation will automatically coincide with what they learnt through agents of secondary socialisation. Their traditional way of thinking will usually be in agreement with their current environment or what they are exposed to (e.g from mass media).
Of course this is not absolute, because there are cases where some children do not accept the new mainstream cultures by ignoring the new culture and adapting to what they learnt on their primary socialisation (e.g ignoring or not caring if they were wearing the same shirt of not with other people). It is all up to the individual judgement.
FYI…. I personally think mixing of culture and infusing it with our mainstream culture are for the best (revolution of culture). I never said that it was bad nor did I write such things on my posts or yours. And yes I agree with you on mixing of other culture would broaden up our knowledge and not only that, IN MY OPINION it would also encourage and promote tolerancy which should unite the world nations together as one.
Mass media is one of the agents of secondary socialisation. Respectively, when they work together, (pri and sec) we internalised on what is appropriate and inappropriate to our understandings and respectively to the way we behave. It usually depends on our interpretation.
P/s : no offense to you.. and with all respect.. please read any post thoroughly before you respond to their finding or explanations.
*This explanation is not absolute, and I am not claiming it to be, but it should help us to explain the issue a little if not wholly. And this can prove that primary and secondary socialisation has a something to do with why now we live in the society where “no two should be wearing the same clothes in the same building”. You can either choose to accept it or not..
Next, I shall explain on how mass media can affect/manipulate our way of thinking on the micro scale.Say for example, when you watch movies or tv series on the television. Most of the TV materials portray a very different culture from ours. Sometimes we came to terms or understand the portrayal of the “culture from tv” and even practice it outside the tv world when we interact with our society. At first it may seems weird, strange or out of the ordinary but overtime subconsciously we begin to accept the “different culture” as normal and consequently it will become a part of the society.
*manipulate is not a bad thing in my dictionary for this post, I don’t know bout yours”
Lastly, regarding my tips, I did not say that different colours of the same designs would make it undistinguishable, but it does help from other people knowing instantly that you have identical piece of clothing as the person near you. I don’t know about you but most of the people that I know are not that extreme fashion observant up to a point they notice your clothing designs from every angle, nook and cranny. Oh yes, I agree with you, the clothes that they sell overseas do have copies of them, but it does eliminate the chances of bumping with other person wearing the same piece in your own country right? On a scale to 10, I’d say the chances of that is only 0.2. Besides, there’s a reason why on my post I put on the word “YOU CAN TRY”.. when the word try appears on the sentences it is not 100% guaranteed that it will work. It is up to the individual whether to listen or follow it or not. Those are just merely my opinions.
To The CSS BOX people…
ANON:
Yes we had time to study fashion in sociology pasal kmi habis syllabus awal..
Yes I don’t hear parents saying “eh lai, jangan pakai baju sama macam orang atu, bari malu tu”.. but I do hear parents saying “Eh lai, bhapa ko membali/memutung fashion cematu, banyak jua sudah org ada/buat cematu” hehee
Yes I know what subjective mean thank you very much. To what extend do you think my writing is subjective.. I don’t see how my personal feelings and judgment could be put into that writing. It is too general to be subjective… I don’t see any subjective-ness… Besides.. Who says that sociology can’t be subjective? Durkheim? Subjective and Objective both exist in sociology.. NDA JA? Each sociologist can choose whether to adopt either social action or Interactionist method jua.. kan kan?
RAL: If he/she think it’s crap than it is up to her/him.. I acknowledge but not accept that and thank him/her for him/her opinion. J
FAADZIL005: I am observant.. but not to that extreme..
OTHERS: If it’s ballooney then don’t try it.. nobody asked you to…
*This post is not intended to offend anyone. It's only a friendly respond"
1 comments:
i totally agree on your opinion here.. good article..
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